How can we make Premium/Metal 10x better?

And offer “credit” cards with Debit balance like Bunq.

https://together.bunq.com/d/12503-pre-order-your-bunq-travel-card

It would give the Metal cards a better look then the Prepaid on it

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The Bunq card is indeed a clever product from the consumer‘s perspective.

But I am honestly puzzled by how they managed to bring that card to market.

The European regulation — Regulation (EU) 2015/751 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 29 April 2015 on interchange fees for card-based payment transactions — defines relatively strict what a credit or debit card is.

And following this categorization, the card should be marked accordingly.

(4)
‘debit card transaction’ means a card-based payment transaction, including those with prepaid cards that is not a credit card transaction;

(5)
‘credit card transaction’ means a card-based payment transaction where the amount of the transaction is debited in full or in part at a pre agreed specific calendar month date to the payer, in line with a prearranged credit facility, with or without interest;

The Bunq card seems not to be in line with this regulation at all.

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I’ve read the FAQ part of this bunq travel card and to me it looks like a normal debit card. Deposits are handled like normal sales transactions and deducted from your balance. If the deposit is released, the balance is increased again. Falling into negative balance is not possible, so I would assume a deposit request would be denied.

Maybe they do actually credit you every end of the month but for your side - the consumer it looks like you are being debited at the time of the transaction. I’ve ordered mine and can’t wait to try it out, seems promising.

Switch Revolut logo from blue to black for Metal users :sunglasses:

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The T&Cs about it sound like the do two things:

In real-time, they adjust the credit limit to match the account balance. And when a transaction happens, it sounds like they block the amount until the end of the month when the “credit card bill” is settled against the account.

Similar to a secured credit card, only that the security deposit grows with every transaction until the end of the month and is then reset.

So they seem to hold the money needed to pay the credit card bill in custody. And this then just looks like the money is debited, while it actually has not left your account but is just blocked and displayed in app like a regular debit transaction.

Bunq is not very clear about this but that is how I understood the paragraphs about the travel card in the T&Cs.

The confusing part for me now is that it does not seem to match two criteria of the regulation:

Since money spent becomes unavailable instantly I would argue that it is not debited delayed at a pre agreed specific date and there does not seem to be any credit contract.

Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s a great product when it improves card acceptance, I am just honestly puzzled how they were able to set this up. Trade associations and lobby groups were and are still pushing hard that cards are marked correctly since cards labeled credit are more expensive for merchants.

From the perspective of a merchant, credit cards are still associated with better solvency. When a car rental says “sorry, no debit, only credit” there is no technical reason or difference in payment processing. Security deposits can be blocked the same way. And delayed transactions can be charged the same way, like when you preauthorize a hotel room and after you left, the amount is adjusted including the mini bar bill. It’s about the car rental’s risk management. Assuming that in case of a dispute, it’s easier for them to further charge a credit card than a debit card.

Update: besides all those labels prepaid, debit, credit, what really matters is card acceptance. And typically, that means that debit cards carry an offline limit for small purchases in situations where the terminal doesn’t have online connection (train, plane, some vending machine, toll booths … ). As far as I know, the regular Bunq debit card does not have such an offline limit but the new credit does. So it seems to have a “better” service code configuration but that is not necessarily related to the label “credit”. Most debit cards from old school banks have the same offline functionality.

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I’m using Bluestacks at the moment on my windows pc. Just an android emulator. Works well.

I totally agree!

At least a simple webbrowser app, where you can block your cards and only send money to yourself! To have the web app as security layer if you lost your phone and cards.

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Yes like Weswap. They have a very basic card but still have the web browser log in functionality. Most people have their cards with their phone. If stolen both go. You will need instant access via a pc/tablet.
This is why I have the bluestacks set up for Revolut. Monzo too but wasn’t able to set it up for Starling!.

The Bunq Travel Card looks actually sweet, but I won’t sign up at Bunq because of it. Did some more reading on it and it’s just like Zero - so basically a debit card disguised as a credit card.

But the fact that we’re stuck with prepaid cards at Revolut is still very sad, couldn’t even get a snack on the InterCity Express train in Germany… I know that offline payments are fading away, but it’s still a thing that many users will be confronted with sooner or later and it just spoils the Revolut experience and makes it look like a toy card. At least a proper debit card would be nice.

Also proper credit cards are still nice for traveling, particularly for emergencies - been there done that. If the Klarna card was embossed and offered withdrawals, I’d be happy with that as well, but unfortunately it’s aiming at a different target group.

tldr: Give us proper debit cards and the option of getting a “proper” credit card (Klarna-style would be fine, as long as I could use it for withdrawals as well).

To my understanding proper debit cards are linked to an account, which isn’t possible when Revolut need to dynamically convert currencies as well as dynamically choose what balance to choose from.

Curve has a full proper debit card and allows dynamic conversion of currency.

Also TransferWise borderless account is linked to several currencies in a wallet system, with a full debit card being linked to the account.

So it is possible.

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I disagree.

That is, what every bank does if you pay with a debit card and it’s not in the currency you have the account run in.

The definition of a debit card is, that the amount is deducted from your account balance immediately. You can draw funds from your account as long as you have.

Debit means, you have funds belonging to you which are used up.

Opposed to this, credit card means, you don’t have to have any balance and are invoiced, usually monthly. How you need to repay your credit depends on the contract, as well as the terms of it.

If you have a line of credit on your bank account, even a debit card can get you in the negative balance. But that is handled in a different level.

Prepaid, and that is the problem, does not necessarily imply you have an account behind it. There are cards on the market, which you can buy anonymously, use and throw away. There are strict limits to the maximum amount loaded onto these cards and if you lose that card, you lose the money as well.

That is the acceptance problem with prepaid versus debit. If a prepaid is not online processed, the risk is high the merchant doesn’t get the money for above mentioned reason. Debit cards on the other hand, offer a lot more security for the merchant as one can assume, the bank is likely to get the money even in the event the account runs into negative ballance because of offline transactions. There is a customer relation between bank and customer.

If Revolut is allowed to issue debit cards under the UK rules I don’t know. If electronic money accounts are not allowed under no circumstances to have negative balances, this could be a strong reason why they issue prepaid and not debit cards.

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But TransferWise is also issuing debit cards (and Curve apparently as well as @Doppjunat mentioned) and they are also a FCA Electronic Money Institution based in the UK. So I believe it should be possible, but maybe it’s easier for Revolut to just issue prepaid cards, also in terms of their own liability which they want to minimize.

Switching to debit would increase acceptance, but I still would wish to have the option to get a credit or charge card. I’m not considering benefits like cashback or whatnot, I’m thinking of certain emergency situations, such as being abroad and in need of urgent medical care which despite travel insurance requires advance payment (been there, done that).

That’s why I mentioned the Klarna card, which is currently available in a few EU countries.
It’s great and fintech-style simple, I can pay something, regardless of balance on my linked bank account (via SEPA direct debits) and then in the app I can choose how to pay - immediately, interest-free up to 14 days later, 30 or 60 days later with a fee or “sliced” with interest, which to my understanding is a mixed design between charge card and credit card. They also have some fancy bells and whistles related to shop integration, but I don’t need those. However, you can’t withdraw cash with this card, otherwise I’d be super happy with this solution.

Revolut implementing this (with working cash withdrawals) would be a dream, but I don’t see it happening anytime soon as it requires a credit score check. We will certainly see Revolut overdrafts before that, but even that won’t happen before the Lithuanian banking license is fully used.

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The worldwide medical insurance of £15m should also include personal liability cover, of say £1m. The point is that a typical travel insurance policy includes both these two things, plus other covers for baggage, delay, lost money, etc. I do not need cover for these secondary, rather low cost, items; but I want cover for anything that has very low probability but potentially high cost if it occurs, (i.e. medical and personal liability) as might occur if I were in an automobile accident in the USA. If personal liability cover were included I would feel more comfortable using the White Horse Revolut policy as my only insurance while travelling.

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Boursorama bank a French online bank has just released an ultimate card that combines the advantages of a neobank card and an online bank card this card and also totally free. Moreover it is the best on almost all points that the metal. So to be simple even if I like revolute much at the expiration of my card I leave this bank to go to the bank Boursorama with their ultimate card unless by then the metal card offers many more things or that its price drops drastically. And here I am not talking about some small insurance but for example the access to the VIP lounge of the free airports. I really hope that revolut will bounce back to this news and offer a card at the height of its price.

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