TOP UP in Swiss Francs - Hidden charges by Revolut


#1

Transfer has worked well. Unfortunately, Revoult’s fees are deducted (CHF 25.00).

The payment was made for my CHF account in Switzerland the UBS in Switzerland (local Swiss payment) (UBS is Lloyds correspondent bank for CHF).

Revoult insists that this is a SWIFT-Fees and they have nothing to do with it. Although it is clearly a local payment to me and the charges arise within Revoluts network.

Too bad…


#2

Since you are transferring the money from a Swiss account to a UK Lloyds account, it is definitely an international transfer.

If you search this forum here, some other customers in Switzerland first thought that Revolut is charging something, but in all cases I am aware of, they eventually found out that all charges for their transfers were fees by Swiss banks / intermediate banks.

With SWIFT transfers, it is sometimes not transparent how many intermediate banks are involved.


#3

The fast answer is not convincing.

Revolut promises top ups in a account-currency, also CHF, free of charge.

I can say that I paid a fee of CHF 3.00 at my bank. And that SWIFT transfer are not transparent, is not true.

There were exactly 3 banks in the game. My bank -> UBS -> Lloyds London.

UBS is the correspondent bank of Lloyds and Lloyds maintains Revoult’s accounts. One can say, that these are hidden fees by Revolut.


#4

Well, this is not what other customers report about transfers from local Swiss CHF accounts. See here:

and here:

@elmarconi mentions massive fees for SWIFT transfers with UBS for example. I suggest you get in contact with some of the other Swiss users there?


#5

Well still not correct!

My money was transferred via SIC (Swiss Interbank Clearing - Message A11) to UBS - Beneficiary Revolut LTD - Account with Lloyds London.

So as simple as that - in my case not even a SWIFT payment. So how can any SWIFT-Fees occur?


#6

I guess you have asked your bank about possible further fees from intermediate banks (namely UBS and Lloyds) already? If you are absolutely certain that neither UBS nor Lloyds charges for these kind of transfers, I would talk to Revolut’s support and show them some kind of confirmation from the outgoing bank about your inquiry.

Another thought: since you initiated the transfer in the SEPA standard (I guess you used the IBAN / BIC information?), your bank or UBS might have chosen SEPA.


#7

Well to put it as simple s possible - you were charged becuase this was not a SEPA transfer,
which refers only to payments in EUR currency within the SEPA area (28 EU member states + 5 other European countries, Switzerland included).


#8

I can totally agree with the others. Revolut’s bank Lloyds use an intermediate bank to receive CHF transfer and NOT the swiss banks. Why would they? Lloyds doesn’t have direct access to the Swiss Interbank Clearing System so that is the reason we have to pay extra fees.

It usually depends on the amount though but each time it will go through an intermediate bank. As an example I have transferred 100CHF and I received the exact amount but with 5000CHF I got charged with some fees.


#9

Well, it is not that simple. SEPA might literally mean Single Euro Payments Area but does indeed allow payments in other currencies than EUR. Member states that are part of the EEA are mostly covered by the same regulations than members of the Euro zone. Switzerland is not part of EEA, different rules and exceptions apply. Swiss banks for example are allowed to charge for incoming SEPA transfers, even if they are in EUR.

Having said that, a CHF transfer from Liechtenstein to Lloyds of London via the SEPA infrastructure (IBAN/BIC data format, following the SEPA guidelines) should not cost more than a local SEPA transfer if there is no currency conversion.

Since SEPA is not the main method for local free transfers in Switzerland, even under EU regulation, Swiss banks would already be allowed to charge for any SEPA transfer. This is exactly the situation in the UK, where a local UK SEPA transfer to Revolut in GBP is possible but more costly because banks often charge for SEPA in general.


#10

Here is a short explanation from Wikipedia:

Since 2009 the European Union Regulation No 924/2009 [2][3] controls cross-border payments in the European Union. In the new regulation Article 1 (q.v., Ref.4) states that an IBAN/BIC transfer within Single Euro Payments Area (SEPA) must not cost more than a national transfer, no matter which currency is used. The receiving bank can charge for exchanging to local currency.

Note that most regulations are also in effect for EEA countries (not just EU), but there are exemptions for Switzerland (member of SEPA but outside of EEA).

Sources:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2009:266:0011:0018:en:PDF
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32001R2560:EN:HTML


#11

No, SEPA only allows EUR transfers. All other transfers are not considered SEPA but international or other forms of transfers. Also, although Switzerland is not a member of the EEA or the EU, it is a SEPA member.

SEPA transfers must be done in EUR currency. I have worked precisely in this area for a couple of years.

Check https://ec.europa.eu/info/business-economy-euro/banking-and-finance/consumer-finance-and-payments/payment-services/single-euro-payments-area-sepa_en

“SEPA covers the whole of the EU. It also applies to payments in euros in other European countries: Iceland, Norway, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Monaco and San Marino. The SEPA regulation (EU) No 260/2012 sets the rules…for euro area countries to make credit transfers and direct debits in euro under the same conditions.”


#12

That is not to say that other forms of transfers are not possible, of course they are. But there are a few conditions a transfer must meet in order to qualify as a SEPA transfer, one of the most important ones being a EUR currency transfer :slight_smile:


#13

Well, I am not so sure, it is confusing.

What about this paragraph:

Article 1
Subject matter and scope

  1. ThisRegulationlaysdownrulesoncross-borderpayments within the Community, ensuring that charges for cross-border payments within the Community are the same as those for payments in the same currency within a Member State.
  2. ThisRegulationshallapplytocross-borderpayments,in accordance with the provisions of Directive 2007/64/EC, which are denominated in euro or in the national currencies of the Member States which have notified their decision to extend the application of this Regulation to their national currency, in accordance with Article 14.

#14

Okay, I think it is important to make a difference between SEPA and the term “IBAN/BIC” transfer here. Because the IBAN/BIC based infrastructure can be used for other currencies as well. As I understand it, this is for example necessary to set up direct debits and card payments.

Both cross boarder direct debit and card payments based on IBAN/BIC are an important part of the SEPA idea where direct debits are possible between different currencies all over the SEPA countries that don’t have EUR as the local currency. If one sets up a direct debit there, the payment will be exchanged by the payers bank, not by the payees bank. And as far as I understand it, the banks can’t charge you more for a cross-border transaction than for a national transaction unless there is currency exchange involved. (They can charge separately for currency exchange.)

And the Wikipedia article clearly states that the regulation was limited to EUR transfers but was changed in 2009 to cover all currencies. Wikipedia might be wrong, of course.

Since 2009 the European Union Regulation No 924/2009 [2][3] controls cross-border payments in the European Union. In the new regulation Article 1 (q.v., Ref.4) states that an IBAN/BIC transfer within Single Euro Payments Area (SEPA) must not cost more than a national transfer, no matter which currency is used. The receiving bank can charge for exchanging to local currency.

Prior to this, in 2002 the European Union relegated the regulation of fees a bank may charge for payments in euro between EU member states down to the domestic level,[4] resulting in very low or no fees for electronic transfers within the Eurozone. In 2005, Iceland, Liechtenstein, and Norway joined the EU regulation on electronic transfers. However, this regulation was superseded by the Single Euro Payments Area (SEPA), consisting of 32 European countries.


#15

I transferred 1000 swiss franc to my revolut account. To avoid any conversion to EUR I transferred the amount as is, in CHF. 3 CHF were charged by my bank (as they told me beforehand), so 1003 were deducted from my account. On the Revolut side however, only 992.50 CHF arrived. Therefore there was a hidden fee by Revolut or an intermediary of 7.50. As already mentioned by other posts, this payment didn’t go by SEPA, as SEPA only accepts EUR. Therefore the total fee is around 1 %, which is about the same as topping up by credit card. It would really be handy if Revolut could provide us with a Swiss IBAN.


#16

It would really be handy when Revolut would confirm that Lloyds bank take 1 % for SWIFT charges.
They (Lloyds) get exactly the CHF I send and it seems for bringing the CHF’s to Revolut they charges the 1 %.
Or does Revolut and Lloyds share 0,5% / 0.5% ???


#17

I remember posts in this forum where customers in Switzerland reported that their CHF arrived without any deduction. Have you contacted them to find out what is different in your case?


#18

Since June I have not sent CHF (due to the hidden fee - see original post)… so do you say that Revolut and/or Lloyds don’t charge anything anymore?


#19

Lloyds Charching nothing when receiving with electronic Bank Transfer:
See International page www.Lloyds (incl SWIFT)
.

Receiving funds
Electronic Bank Transfer from another financial institution Free
.
So the 1 % SWIFT charge is going to Revolut.
Nice, here comes the money…

VISA / MC 1 % is going to these companies, this is ok.
But the 1 % for SWIFT to Revolut is just unfriendly…
2 GBP for all rec SWIFT money would be fair.


#20

Hi @siri, how do you know that there is not another intermediary involved that deducts a handling fee?

Isn’t it like this: Swiss bank — unknown number of possible intermediaries — Lloyds — Revolut? Can’t this route be different depending on the Swiss bank?

What is the logic behind assuming Lloyd’s information about the fees is right, but Revolut’s information about also stating not to charge a fee is not?

From which website did you get the information about Lloyd’s fee from? A website for consumer accounts? Revolut and Lloyd’s are not in a consumer-business-relationship. It’s B2B. I am pretty sure they can negotiate things like these fees for the service independently from what Lloyd’s says for a specific account model on a website. :thinking: