Fair Usage Policy Update


#1

###Fair Usage Policy Update


We’re updating our terms and conditions and Fair Usage policy for ATM withdrawals. These changes apply to large monthly ATM withdrawals and won’t affect most users, but you should check out what’s new here.


#5

Confused on the dates on this. On your tumblr page it says these come in to effect for existing customers on 5th Feb 2017 but on the Revolut website it says the 2nd Feb. Which one is correct??


#6

Disappointing reduction in service. Will we gradually see other benefits reduced in order that :r: makes a profit?


#7

Spot on @Macca we have corrected it. Thank you


#8

@AndreasK Ok so now the date is correct, how will this work in principle??

Using my trip as an example, I’m going to USA on 31/1/17 so will have the £500 (or equivalent) up to and including that date. Then from 1st Feb, it refreshes to another £500 until the 5th Feb when the limit is £200

Does this limit refresh on 5th or is it a carry on?? For example, if I take £250 out between 1st - 4th Feb, on 5th Feb do I get charged the fee for any more withdrawals I do as I’ve already gone over £200 for that calendar month or is the £200 fee free??


#9

Feedback. I understand this is all about Revolut trying to find a sustainable business model. I think I speak for others. Here’s how the change effects us. Revolut’s no-fee ATM withdrawals were their raison d’être. Now there’s no benefit to keeping the card in my wallet. I withdraw about 500 GBP per month. The card won’t get used for purchases because it will be at home. Instead I’ll use my local bank card to get cash and to make purchases. Revolut has gone from first best card to sixth best. That said, I’ll continue to use Revolut for their top up and exchange services.

I’m a bit upset about this. I’ve championed Revolut to my friends because of their worldwide no-fee ATM withdrawal feature. Now I’ll have to tell them to nevermind what I said. There’s little reason to talk up the card anymore.

I understand why this is happening. If you look at the community discussions, you can see there’s a lot of customer service and direct expense required to solve outlier ATM issues (not to mention the over-the-top complaining). People shouldn’t complain about the policy update without offering better ways to make Revolut’s business sustainable. What would work for me is to do what N26 has done. Offer a premium service for 6 Euros/month that provides no-fee worldwide ATM withdrawals (N26 offers other perks too).

Update: After further thought, I can only justify paying for a Revolut Premium service if it includes an IBAN as well as higher ATM withdrawal limit.


#10

I feel very similar to bsalita about the change. It is a massive reduction from 500 to 200 pound free withdrawal monthly limit. I have also recommended revolut to a number of friends as being the best company in the market of its kind. However I won’t be able to say that anymore due to this change. The 500 free withdrawal a month separated your company from the rest. If you have to make changes may I suggest a yearly limit so 2400 pounds a year then the people that use it while on holiday won’t be affected. I used my card in November at ATM in Sweden but dnt plan to use it until next holiday in March. I will still use the card for purchases but I won’t be recommending the company anymore which is a shame as I was one of your biggest fans


#11

Thanks for taking the time to provide your feedback. It is precisely why we created this Community Forum and extremely valuable to us as a company.

The reason we have implemented the £200 limit for ATM withdrawals is simply because we needed to cover our costs. This means we can continue to provide the best available exchange rates for our customers.

I’d argue that there are a number of reasons to keep the RevolutCard in your wallet. Here are just a few.

Firstly, I’m yet to find another company out there that’s providing interbank rates to spend around the globe. The cost savings vs your bank (or indeed other card providers) are substantial. A typical UK bank will markup the FX rate by around 6%, in addition to charging substantially higher fees to withdraw cash or pay by card abroad.

Secondly, unlike most banks, we don’t charge to pay with your card anywhere in the world. What we’d recommend is trying to make most of your purchases with your RevolutCard where possible.

Thirdly, our App/Card provides the kind of functionality that you can’t get from your standard bank including real-time transaction notifications; sending/requesting instant money transfers between your contacts; and spending analytics to show you exactly where your money goes.

We’re also currently working on a Revolut premium service, so keep an eye out for updates on this soon.


#12

I like the idea of a yearly limit.

I just spent two months in the US and got this card specifically for that. I’m planning to use it again in 2017 for holidays too because I did find the holiday exchange rates useful - and I didn’t withdraw that much cash.

That said, card is something that is accepted in most places in the US so I didn’t need cash. My next target is Asia and I suspect that’ll be different. Hence my yearly limit support. I probably won’t use the card again until March at the earliest.


#13

Hi grace I appreciate the reasons revolut has made the change although naturally it is disappointing - any chance users can decide between monthly and yearly limit?


#14

There is a big problem with this: Now Revolut simply does not offer good value over a good Credit Card, and that kills off all the benefits of using the card for ATM withdrawals. Let’s run a simulation using numbers from the internet.

According to this, the overload that Mastercard charges over the spot rate is around 0.5%. A credit card with 0% ATM fees, of which there are several, will charge an annual interest on top of that until fully paid. Thing is, since Revolut is a prepaid card the fair comparison is that it is indeed fully paid the same day.

Let’s be generous and consider the most expensive of the 0% withdrawal rate cards, the Santander Zero, which charges 29.99% APR until the balance is cleared, or 0,09% daily, and that the payment takes three days to be cleared. The total fee for a withdrawal will be 0.5%+0.09%*3 = 0.77%, so for 500 pounds (following Revolut’s own example) it amounts to 0.77% * £500 = £3.85, that’s 35% cheaper than Revolut!

To me it means that Revolut is only good for minor expenses now. And considering there are credit cards that also give you 0.5% cashback on expenses and free foreign currency transactions (thus nullifying or reducing the overload), then it means that Revolut is not very competitive right now. A pity, I really like the idea that Revolut promotes!


#15

Thanks for the explanation, Grace.
However I join other users in the constructive criticism.

  1. I also think many users will leave the card at home. While before you could still make money on, let’s say, GBP transactions made with the GBP account (free interchange fees for you) now people will only use it when abroad and not anymore in their home country.

  2. Please think about the yearly limit and whether your costs will be covered with this scenario.

  3. Competitors seems more interesting now. For instance Curve. They offer the same ATM withdrawal limit. They charge 1% on foreign transactions on top of the interbank rate. But I take money directly from my credit card and therefore: (i) no top-up hassle; and (ii) I get all my airmiles or perks. I’m using Curve for home transactions too. The card is in my pocket all the time and Curve happily gets the interchange fee for free.

  4. 200£ is not a big deal. If I withdraw money with my credit card I have protection in case of robbery after the withdrawal. What’s Revolut’s habit changing offer? None.


#16

Hey Shane,

Thanks for your feedback. It’s a real shame to hear that you no longer think we’re the best in the market and we’re sorry to disappoint. Whilst we have added a lower limit on ATM withdrawals, our fees to withdraw cash overseas are still significantly more competitive than our competitors or a typical UK bank.

In terms of whether we could do a yearly limit, unfortunately this option simply isn’t sustainable for us. We’ve crunched the numbers and the monthly limit enables us to cover our costs for ATM withdrawals and therefore maintain the best FX rates in the market.


#17

Hey Cris,

Thanks for taking the time to provide us with some detailed feedback. However, your example of Santander Zero (and indeed other credit card providers) fails to take into consideration the markup of their FX rates.

Let’s use your Santander Zero example and the £500 budget for consistency. I just had a quick check of todays rates found here.

The rate offered by Santander today is 1.1376.
Revolut’s rate is 1.1841 (changing every second as it’s live).

So, for a £500 budget spent on card:

Santander will give you €568.5
Revolut will give you €592.20

Therefore, Revolut would give you at least €24 extra when you spend with your card.

For a £500 ATM withdrawal (including all Revolut fees):

Revolut will give you €585
Santander will give you €568.

This includes the £6 ATM fee charged by Revolut and assumes no charge by the Santander Zero card.

Therefore, Revolut would give you at least €17 more to withdraw from an ATM. :+1:

Note: The reason why I say at least is because I didn’t include/deduct the 0,09% daily APR charged by Santander Zero.

The example provided is typical of any bank, and indeed almost every other card provider. The benefit of using Revolut is not just the fact we offer interbank rates, but also that you’ll always be sure that you’re getting the best rate on the market.


#18

Hey there!

Thanks for your thoughts. I’d point out that we provide similar functionality to that you’ve described.

(i) You can top-up your Revolut account with a credit card
(ii) Our auto top-up feature means we’ll automatically top-up your account if your balance falls below £100/£200/£500 so you don’t ever need to worry about it.

I’d also say that our habit changing offer, besides interbank FX rates, is ultimately the fact we offer way better functionality vs. a typical bank or our competitors (including Curve!).

To name a few:

*Free global bank transfers at interbank rates
*Free, instant currency exchange
*Free use of our request/send money feature so you can easily split bills, holiday or living expenses
*Our new spending analytics tool to show you exactly where your money’s going!

I’ve switched to Revolut as my main card, and can’t see myself switching back. (And I promise it’s not just because I work there :wink: ).


#19

Hi Grace,

Thank you for your comment, but I don’t believe I did.

  • The Santander Zero is a card that has 0% fee over the exchange rate given by Mastercard as per their terms and conditions. The exchange rate that you quote is the one they use for direct purchase of money from them or from bank account (say, if I send money abroad), NOT the one used by Mastercard, which you can see here.

The rate that they are actually offering is 1,192933 at yesterday’s close, as today’s is not available until tomorrow (happy to update my post tomorrow with the real rate charged).

So, I am sorry but your calculation is not correct.

I want to make clear that I have nothing to do with Santander! I just selected that card as it was the most expensive of the ones with no FX markup, precisely because of what you say.


#20

Hi Grace,

I might have been misunderstood.

I have an incredibly high opinion of Revolut and I have already convinced more than 20 friends to join (many of them now on the waiting list).

What I think is that Revolut has the potential to become a new standard setter, like Venmo or PayPal. It’s easy, comfortable, convenient.

The problem is when you put too many limits, caps, fees.

I understand the year cap doesn’t work for you and this is totally fine. What I am saying is that 200£ is a very low limit and 2% is a very high mark-up on ATM withdrawals. You’ll need many catchy and habit changing features then to convince standard people (not nerds like me) to carry the Revolut card in their pockets. The ideas section is full of suggestions already.

Good luck and thanks for all the good work until now.


#21

I am fairly new to Revolut so it could be I don’t understand so well.

I would rather have 500 than 200 but I am not surprised that Revolut’s costs are finely balanced. Surely other companies must be very disturbed that their business model is being challenged by Revolut. Why should I change money with Moneycorp at a lower rate than I can change money with Revolut? It’s a no-brainer.

Anyway my question… I use Revolut purely so that when I travel I can effectively get Euros from ATMs and also pay for Euro purchases. Does it benefit Revolut’s margins if I use the card to pay for GBP purchases in my normal life? I could easily switch and would be glad to help out as a thank-you for cutting my Euro costs.


#22

Hi grace is there a figure that would work for revolut over a year? Personally 1500 pound would probably still work for me and would be better than having to pay the two per cent fee. I do think revolut should try and offer some flexibility with this if you can crunch the number and it works.


#23

This change breaks the most attractive feature of revolut. The £500 / month limit allowed me to plan any trip without taking cash beforehand, knowing that I could use revolut if I needed. With a £200 / month limit, I’ll have to go back to exchanging some cash before each trip. Disappointed, hope you go back to an higher ATM withdrawal monthly limit.

Alternatively, a suggestion for infrequent travelers, what about allowing rollover of the unused amounts for the last 4 months? You’d avoid people using the service excessively, while people going on holiday breaks once a quarter would still have a usable limit.