Apple Pay support


#1849

From what I’ve read if you were to use Apple Pay on your watch, then your phone, then they both die and you use your card, there’d be 3 separate cards as far as they’re concerned.

I read this from TfL themselves on their website. Not sure how up to date this is.


#1850

The physical card uses the actual card number. The others use made-up numbers (device account number) only the issuer can map to your actual card.


#1851

The physical card, iPhone Apple Pay card and Apple Watch Apple Pay card all have separate card numbers. The rule with TfL is always to touch in and out with the same card number, including within daily and weekly capping periods. The same applies with any type of card - nothing different for Apple Pay.


#1852

I mean, that was my understanding that I was trying to convey but you said it was wrong and that TfL has deals with the issuers :sweat_smile::joy:


#1853

There is no Revolut on Czech page of Apple Pay. (http://apple.com/cz/apple-pay/)


#1854

#1855

You as always take some fringe case and normalize it. People are not losing their phones left and right.

All my Apple Pay enabled cards are collecting dust, because I have a phone and a watch on me at all times.

Having a physical card makes sense when travelling the world where you are not sure about NFC support, but in your home country (especially in Europe) makes little to no sense.


#1856

Same here. Well most of the time. Sometimes I pull out my Metal card for sh*ts and giggles. :rofl:


#1857

@Recchan, I think you have misunderstood. I’ll take the time to clarify it, because it will be useful for others to know when Revolut eventually supports Apple Pay and Revolut customers start using Apple Pay on TfL.

Every time you create an Apple Pay card, either on an iPhone or Apple Watch, the Apple Pay card has a new different card number from the physical card and from any other Apple Pay cards (including previous Apple Pay cards on the same device). For touching in, touching out, daily caps and weekly caps, TfL looks only at the card number. Therefore you should always use the same card number during each calendar week. If you touch in with an Apple Pay card and then touch out with a physical card (which have different card numbers), then you will have two unresolved journeys. You should also avoid removing and readding a card to Apple Pay in the middle of a calendar week, as you will negate weekly fare capping, as the card number will change.

You wrote “TfL doesn’t cap to Apple Pay underlying cards”, which is not the case, as the caps work correctly on Apple Pay cards and physical cards in exactly the same way.

The only exception to the above is when you log into the TfL web site to view your journey history. You need to enter your physical card’s card number, expiry date and CVV in order to view your journey history for any Apple Pay card numbers. The reason for this is because it is very difficult for passengers to find out their full Apple Pay card number and expiry date (a tiny minority of merchants print it on receipts) and it’s impossible to find a CVV. TfL receives mapping from the card networks (Visa, MasterCard, American Express etc) of Apple Pay card numbers to physical card numbers. Therefore once you enter a physical card number, you can immediately see separate cards in your TfL account representing your Apple Pay cards on the same account. I do wonder how this works when there is no physical card, for example with Boon and Deutsche Bank.


#1858

It doesn’t matter if someone has actually cut some plastic and printed a number on it: you have an underlying card, physical or virtual, with a card number. This number is used to sign-up with Apple Pay and mapped by the issuer of the card (physicsl or virtual) to a different number that is specific to the device.


#1859

The critical question is if the customer can find this number out. Without knowing it, one can’t log in at TfL’s website with it.

I am not a Deutsche Bank customer, but the issuance process for the virtual card all happens in their app. And it’s a single purpose card. You can’t use the same card for Google Pay or Deutsche Bank’s own NFC payment app on Android. But I can’t tell if they show the card number in app.

Boon did the same for a while. They provided a virtual card, but did not disclose its details, it was just a piece of infrastructure to enable NFC payments on it. They’ve changed that recently, at least in some markets. It’s now more like having a virtual card on Revolut that can be also used outside of mobile payment.


#1860

No, they don’t. In the Deutsche Bank app, no card details are shown at all, whereas in the Apple Wallet, the last 4 digits of the card number are shown. With other card issuers where there’s a corresponding physical card, these last 4 digits are of the physical card, and with Deutsche Bank the Apple Pay cards, both in the iPhone and Apple Watch, have the same last 4 digits, which indicates that they are not the Apple Pay cards’ last 4 digits.


#1861

I think Apple Pay is coming to Revolut soon.


#1862

When you Top up with Apple Pay you can see your full card number in the transaction history on the Deutsche Bank website.


#1863

CVV would be also necessary.


#1864

I didn’t say that it will help much - I just said you can see the number. :wink:

BTT: I really look forward when Apple Pay will be released for Revolut cards. Even topping up my Revoult account is a game changer with Apple Pay.


#1865

Sounds like common sense to me. :rofl:


#1866

Yes, I made it sound obvious, but the part that isn’t obvious to many people is that the physical card and Apple Pay card have different card numbers.


#1867

It is the case. I am talking about in practice, if you use Apple Pay on the tube then the cap doesn’t apply to both Apple Pay and the card that it’s linked to, just Apple Pay.

As you rightly mentioned, it’s some meme to do with virtual card numbers. Hopefully they get rid of this as Visa and Mastercard add tokenisation to effectively add the same protection to their systems, meaning that you could use Apple and Android pay as if it were a proper card.


#1868

The cap does apply. Touch in and touch out with the same Apple Pay card, and you will be charged correctly. Touch in and touch out with the same physical card, and you will be charged correctly. The same principle applies to daily and weekly caps.