Apple Pay support


#1648

The point here is that physical contactless cards, as you suggested several weeks ago above, are not an alternative to Apple Pay because of payment limits.


#1649

OK but if you’re going to take that line you might as well as say that having a multi-currency card for travelling is a luxury. Having food and shelter is a priority. If we’re going by Maslow’s hierarchy of needs then everything we’re discussing here in these forums is at the absolute apex of the pyramid, so it’s disingenous to dismiss some feature requests as luxuries merely because they don’t happen to mesh with your personal priorities.

This is a strange argument. The two concepts are orthogonal. There’s nothing mutually exclusive or interdependent about them. Unless Revolut has downsized to one employee, there’s no reason why supporting Apple Pay has to be at the expense of adding BGN or HRK, or adding top-up for HUF.

I don’t know anyone who has used Apple Pay once or twice and then givenup on it. I very much doubt this is the norm for anyone who uses Apple Pay but neither of us have the statistics to back this up and are just going by ad-hoc experiences. As such, you have no firm grounds to say that more people follow the pattern you suggest (using it 1-2x then giving up).

What a bizarre assertion! So you’re saying that Apple Pay only makes sense for those who literally have their phones in their hands 24/7? Is this seriously your argument? It might surprise you that Apple Pay users generally have their phones in their pockets also, but that they find it easier to whip out the phone than get out their wallets/purses and then fish out the credit card from their wallet.

It’s disingenous and a prime example of fallacious reasoning to quote a fragment of a sentence and make it look like a stand-alone assertion. My point about Apple Watch was an additional point about making it even easier to use if you happen to own one. I never said or suggested that this was the primary use case of Apple Pay.
I guess everyone here is ‘vocal’ except you - despite you having a far larger number of posts on this thread than I do!

But contactless is more convenient and secure than Chip and PIN and you also avoid the risk of DCC from unscrupulous operators.

Again, why would anyone choose Chip and PIN if they have better and easier options?
I don’t think you understood what NFH said about how Apple Pay is vastly more secure than Chip and PIN (or contactless).

Ah, so your final argument is leave these forums and go elsewhere if you’re not happy with what Revolut currently offers. Sounds like just the thing every Marketing department needs! What you’re missing is that I am a customer just like you and I’m letting Revolut know that I would use their card much more if they supported Apple Pay. That’s clearly true for many others also (just from reading this thread) and I think it’s the kind of thing that Revolut would like to be appraised of if they have any business sense.


#1650

I don’t quite understand that. Doesn’t Apple Pay have some sort of confirmation you have to provide if you spend above a certain limit, like contactless (max CHF 40, EUR25, GBP?? without PIN). I would assume so, otherwise it would not be very secure.


#1651

No. Face ID, Touch ID or the Apple Watch Unlock-PIN usually is confirmation enough.


#1652

Consider the various forms of authentication:
A. Something you have (e.g. a card or smartphone)
B. Something you know (e.g. a PIN or password)
C. Something you are (e.g. a fingerprint or face)

Physical contactless cards use only A, i.e. single-factor authentication, which is not secure. Two-factor authentication is more secure. Chip & PIN uses A and B. Apple Pay on an iPhone uses A and C and on an Apple Watch uses A and C via the iPhone or A and B on the watch itself.

Given that C is more secure than B, in that it cannot be easily replicated, Apple Pay is therefore more secure than chip & PIN and therefore has no transaction limit.


#1653

Exactly. Most people who get used to Apple Pay are reluctant to switch to a card that doesn’t support it. Nobody wants to take a technological step backwards, which is what Revolut expects many of its users to do through its failure to implement Apple Pay for almost two years since it promised to do so.


#1654

Thanks @Regalia and @NFH
I’m very aware of the different authentication systems and it’s weaknesses. I just did not know what Apple Pay asks for, if used to pay.

The contactless limits to use it without PIN are a comfort thing that the market asks for and which I use myself as well. There is certainly a certain risk associated with this, but it’s very limited in scope and I would detect it very soon through the push notifications of Revolut (which I don’t have for my other “conventional” bank/credit cards). If the amount is over CHF40, I use contactless with PIN or Chip&PIN to complete the transactions. I never hit any limit in normal day use with that.

I’m just not sure if your trust in fingerprint is a bit too strong. It’s been proven that these can be faked quite easily (take a good finger print picture from a flat surface, print it negative with a 3D printer, use some special glue to get a positive copy again and use that with your normal finger. Frighting, but that works even for quite “sophisticated” equipment.


#1655

Someone would rather spy on your unlock code or steal your wallet before faking your fingerprint. :laughing:

Thieves on the street want to make fast money easily. Usually they are not rocket scientists. :sweat_smile:


#1656

You’re probably right! :laughing: Always take the easy road.


#1657

Use your card, chip and pin. If you don’t go over 30, contactless.

I’m dismissing am alternative way to pay that’s literally just an authenticated extension on NFC with tokenisation for slightly better security, over multi-currency accounts that allow me to work all over the world and pay my bills. The hierarchy of needs means we look at the purpose of Revolut, which is to be your #1 method of payment across the globe.

This needs multi-currency accounts first and foremost, local ones. Not bloody Apple Pay, hence why it’s a luxury. You can pay by card anywhere but how do you get the money without the local accounts? You can’t if you live there.

This is why it’s infinitely more important for Revolut to focus on the global free transfers. If you don’t want the multi-currency don’t bother with Revolut. Next.

I disagree. Priorities exist, I’d rather the engineers work on important things first and foremost. Everything else comes after, like Apple Pay.

Priorities. Engineers only have two hands! I’m not saying Apple Pay should be removed from the Roadmap, I’m saying it should be benched or at least low priority while they do everything important.

Granted. My point still stands, it’s not as convenient for most as your comment suggests. More people don’t have an Apple Watch than have.

Vocal minority are the ones advocating for something, I would say I’m the vocal majority and that the majority of Revolut customers don’t care too much about Apple Pay.

I’d like to see the reasoning for contactless being more secure than Chip and PIN, considering Visa & MC are introducing tokenisation to their cards. Also as I recall FaceID is tricked by twins (an edge case indeed) but a twin won’t know your PIN :wink:

In April Mastercard will be introducing a new mandate that will effectively kill DCC. I can’t give any more details but AndreasK has confirmed this. CaxtonFX has also confirmed this.

Well, you don’t. You have contactless and you have chip and PIN.

I’d like to think I have a relatively good understanding of how both Apple and Google Pay work.

I’m saying Revolut will never compete with ‘0.5% cashback’ so you should go and use that instead of complaining about a service that can’t financially compete with it.

Apple Pay or not I can’t see any good reason to sacrifice ‘0.5%’ cashback, even with Visa rates being a little worse than Revolut.

Not sure how into Cyber Security you are but the general recommendation is to pair all three. A and C isn’t necessarily more secure than A and B also, depending on the implementation. I’m not doubting the security or implementation of Apple’s FaceID as it’s quite clever though.

If you care so much about security I reckon you’re better off with A and B though. As in a contactless card with its contactless disabled so only Chip and PIN works. Once someone can recreate C (which I assure you they can do if they’re determined enough) you can’t change C, as it’s something you are.

Apple Pay has no limit because it has authentication btw, it’s not particularly because its more secure.

Depends how determined they are. They could easily accomplish both, but at least you can take steps to prevent someone seeing your PIN. You can change something you know too, you can’t change your fingerprint or retina etc.

I’m saying it’s much easier to use your phone when you always have it out. Nothing less, nothing more.

I disagree. The whole point of Apple Pay is the added convenience of having it in your hands already and reliance on your mobile phone. It certainly wasn’t just “so you don’t have to get your wallet out”.

Also, if it’s such an issue sounds like you need to carry less in your wallet. I personally pay by card normally and I can have my main card in my hand within a second :wink: any other card may take an extra half a second to a second, but from my time using Apple Pay it took longer to select a different card, assuming my memory is correct.


#1658

Apple Pay doesn’t need the Revolut engineers. In fact, neither should adding more currency accounts - after all, currency accounts are already in place, it’s just a matter of having the config for the new ones, and Apple Pay has already been developed and implemented - by Apple. Revolut needs to agree to the deal with Apple - which is likely the legal team.


#1659

In the end everything boils down to your own preference. When :r: would ask me:

“What new feature is important for you that you would actively use when it would be released now?”

I would say:

“Yeah the feature that I would instantly use is Apple Pay with :r:.”

So that may not be the most important thing in overall, but for me personally it would be important.


#1660

Well you should try to stay realistic and focus on lifelike situations. Don’t tell me that a street thief on the streets of Brazil or in Africa (or wherever) will start to fake your fingerprints. If you overstretch theoretical stuff too much, people will just hear a hollow ring when you speak.


#1661

Connecting to local payment schemes requires engineers to implement the relevant infrastructure.

Relatively sure it does. I’m not entirely sure of course, but I’d like my chances in a betting office.

In the coming years as mobile payments spread it would be a lie to tell you they won’t start working out methods to pull fingerprints. This is how criminals work, it’s new technology or they’d have already managed it.


#1662

Meanwhile…


:thinking:


#1663

:cold_sweat:

twenty twenty


#1664

Also Monese…
https://monese.com/blog/2019/02/apple-pay-is-here?amp=true&__twitter_impression=true


#1665

This is really really reallllyyyy frustrating !!!


#1666

Maybe it’s a wave of approvals and Revolut will be among them. Let’s wait a few hours. :thinking:


#1667

Don’t think so… the French website has been updated since HSBC France and BNP Paribas have also received Apple Pay support today, but Revolut is still under “Coming soon” :no_mouth: